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Grampian 23
- Thread starter George Stuteville
- Start date Sep 21, 2005
- Brand-Specific Forums
George Stuteville
I am considering buying a Grampian 23. I already have a 24-foot Columbia Contender. What impresses me about the 23 is its interior space. Is there anyone familiar enough with these two models? They seem like comparable boats in some respects in terms of their size and age. The Grampian is in what I would consider good to excellent shape. My Contender was a work in progress when I obtained it, and I have restored it from fair to good condition. What concerns me about the Grampian is whether the keel bolts are a weak point...is the fiberglass susceptible to blistering...is the rudder sturdy...is the mast normally a fixed mount? what size of outboard would power the Grampian best... Thanks
Excellent boat - loads of space. You should have a look at the Grampian web site and do some research on the G-23 there. I have a G-26 and absolutely love her. Fast (class champion 3 years straight, & overall fleet champion one year(over 100 other boats). Now the G-23 won't go as fast as the G-26, but they were made the same - way overbuilt. I have never seen any Grampians with keel bolt problems (my '73 bolts look as though they were just put in). Never had any blisters in the hull, yes - the rudder is very sturdy, and the mast is cabin mount with uppers and front & rear lower shrouds, forestay & backstay. Take a close look at the chainplate fastening points below deck, and verify that the main bulkhead that has the chainplates is ok. The uppers and rear lowers should be fibreglass tabbed to the hull, and usually are just fine. Many G-23 owners use a 9.9 hp outboard.
G23 Hi. I own a Grampian G23 and love it. Never had any problem with the keel bolts or blistering at all (fresh water sailing). These boats are "over built" for sure. Just make sure that you check for any water damage that may have happened that would effect the cabin top and decks. If the chain plates,deck fittings and mast step bolts etc. were sealed well then you should be ok. Survey, survey, survey....it's worth it. I motor the boat with a 5 horse/ 4 stroke Honda. I have a 7 horse/ 2 stroke also as a back-up. the 5 horse maybe under powered but I haven't sailed in any rough waters yet; so I would recomend something larger than the 5. I have had my G23 up to 7 knots....seems fast enough for me and for what the boat is (floating camper). Love the amount of room inside for the size of the craft. I would like a little more cockpit room but I guess that that is the compromise. Fair winds.........Peter
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Grampian 23
The grampian 23 is a 23.25ft masthead sloop designed by alex mcgruer and built in fiberglass by grampian marine between 1971 and 1976., 450 units have been built..
The Grampian 23 is a light sailboat which is a reasonably good performer. It is reasonably stable / stiff and has a low righting capability if capsized. It is best suited as a day-boat. There is a very short water supply range.
Grampian 23 for sale elsewhere on the web:
Main features
| Model | Grampian 23 | ||
| Length | 23.25 ft | ||
| Beam | 8 ft | ||
| Draft | 2.36 ft | ||
| Country | Canada (North America) | ||
| Estimated price | $ 0 | ?? |
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| Sail area / displ. | 17.80 | ||
| Ballast / displ. | 32.28 % | ||
| Displ. / length | 155.81 | ||
| Comfort ratio | 14.33 | ||
| Capsize | 2.17 |
| Hull type | Monohull swing keel | ||
| Construction | Fiberglass | ||
| Waterline length | 20.93 ft | ||
| Maximum draft | 5.33 ft | ||
| Displacement | 3200 lbs | ||
| Ballast | 1033 lbs | ||
| Hull speed | 6.13 knots |
We help you build your own hydraulic steering system - Lecomble & Schmitt
| Rigging | Masthead Sloop | ||
| Sail area (100%) | 241 sq.ft | ||
| Air draft | 31 ft | ||
| Sail area fore | 130.68 sq.ft | ||
| Sail area main | 110.21 sq.ft | ||
| I | 26.40 ft | ||
| J | 9.90 ft | ||
| P | 23.70 ft | ||
| E | 9.30 ft |
| Nb engines | 1 | ||
| Total power | 0 HP | ||
| Fuel capacity | 0 gals |
Accommodations
| Water capacity | 20 gals | ||
| Headroom | 0 ft | ||
| Nb of cabins | 0 | ||
| Nb of berths | 0 | ||
| Nb heads | 0 |
Builder data
| Builder | Grampian Marine | ||
| Designer | Alex McGruer | ||
| First built | 1971 | ||
| Last built | 1976 | ||
| Number built | 450 |
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Grampian 23 vs ?
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Put this one on your list: Northern 25 Sailboat for sale - British Columbia Sailboats For Sale - Kijiji British Columbia Canada. Yeah, it's listed above your budget, but it never hurts to make an offer.
CapnBones said: ... What kind of condition are the sails in? As far as a stove goes, we used a rail mount bbq to do everything for years and even now that I have a boat with a stove I still do most of my cooking on the bbq.... Click to expand...
MikeOReilly said: This being said, I would look for something slightly larger; in the 25-27 foot range. Standing head room, and enough space to stow a week's worth of clothes and food, mean the difference between camping with a boat, and living on a boat. It's not that you couldn't live with the small space (I bet you're campers/trippers, right?), but it will wear thin after a few days. Click to expand...
Faster said: Here's a YW search for PNW.. (Sail) Cruiser Boats For Sale The Grampian has a decent rep, a Columbia 26 might be more comfortable and better selection. If you're not too tall you may have headroom under the cabin house. The Northern 25 is a great suggestion, a Coronado 25 is another; too bad about the head requirement because a 26 Thunderbird might otherwise be the best sailing possibility for you and there are a lot of them around too.. good cockpit, lots of owner support and knowledge base. I'm not sure I'd be too tempted by the 30 Buccaneer on the link... something scary there. The Catalina 27, Hunter 25 and Tanzer 7.5 are all decent boats for our area. Click to expand...
For the price and the condition and amenities in the Gram I think it looks like a nice boat. What kind of condition are the sails in? As far as a stove goes, we used a rail mount bbq to do everything for years and even now that I have a boat with a stove I still do most of my cooking on the bbq. The size of the boat, even without roller furling is very manageable. Also it is a buyers market so figure you can knock em down under that asking price and that is just more money for you to modify how you please.
Hi Pointy, I've never owned a Gramp 23, but am the owner of a Grampian 34 (currently for sale: www.elysian.ca ), and have been up close and personal with many other Gramp models. They are all tough, well built boats. Nothing fancy or prissy about them. Just solid and functional. This being said, I would look for something slightly larger; in the 25-27 foot range. Standing head room, and enough space to stow a week's worth of clothes and food, mean the difference between camping with a boat, and living on a boat. It's not that you couldn't live with the small space (I bet you're campers/trippers, right?), but it will wear thin after a few days. With your budget, and with today's market, there are boats in the 25-27 range available: Grampian 26, Northern 25, Mirage 26 ... lots more I'm sure.
The Grampian was a good quality boat. If it has no soft spots on the deck, then I would say its a good buy. Your "cons" are not big deals. It will take less than a gallon to put on one coat of new bottom paint; less than two gallons if you need two coats. Assuming you will be using ablative multi-season paint (highly recommended), at about $150/gallon, its not a big cost. That stuff can be put right on top of any existing paint; no bottom job needed. Roller furling for a boat that size will run about $500 for the unit/foil, and another couple of hundred maybe to modify your existing sail. Some units may require that you replace the headstay if the length of the existing stay can't be adjusted to accomodate the furling unit; you may need a new, shorter, stay installed. This is the single best upgrade for single or shorthanded sailing you can do. Outboard engines on small sailboats are a crapshoot; if well-maintained, they can last for twenty years. Often, these types of engines get very light use. If I put 20 hours/season on my engine, that's a lot. I only use it to get in and out of the marina and out to the harbor. Two strokes have few moving parts to wear out and are more tolerant of mistakes and less than stellar maintenance than their four stroke cousins. You will find many people who consider the two stroke engine to be a plus in this purchase. No stove? Buy a Coleman camp stove for fifty bucks. Other boats in this price range that should be available: the Oday 23 and 25; the Catalina 22 and 25.
It sounds like either the Grampian or the Columbia suits your needs. Although there are a lot of boats out there in this buyers market that will suit your specifications.
Here's a YW search for PNW.. (Sail) Cruiser Boats For Sale The Grampian has a decent rep, a Columbia 26 might be more comfortable and better selection. If you're not too tall you may have headroom under the cabin house. The Northern 25 is a great suggestion, a Coronado 25 is another; too bad about the head requirement because a 26 Thunderbird might otherwise be the best sailing possibility for you and there are a lot of them around too.. good cockpit, lots of owner support and knowledge base. I'm not sure I'd be too tempted by the 30 Buccaneer on the link... something scary there. The Catalina 27, Hunter 25 and Tanzer 7.5 are all decent boats for our area.
Add the Grampian 26 to your list. Not going to win any beauty contests but has real standing headroom for over 6 footers. Port dinette is a squeeze for 4 but comfy for 2. Starboard galley is big enough to be useful and it has an enclosed head. Big cockpit and a cutout on the transom that makes the outboard a lot easier to use than most. I chartered one for 4 of us one summer and we spent several days in the islands on it - served very well for such a small boat. If one became a keeper, it could be fixed up and customized to be a very nice little boat.
The Columbia 26 Mk II is not a re-hash of the Coronado 27. The C26 Mk II has iron ballast (just as an FYI). I owned a Coronado 25 for 2 years as my first boat and there are C26 Mk II's all around me. First- My little Coronado was built like a tank. I sailed it in 30 kts, and did overnight and beer can races in it. I took 9th out of 15 in the series as my first attempt as racing skipper. A Coronado's primary weakness is the hull/deck joint, which can be repaired. The Columbias are also tough, and well-built and there is an active Yahoo forum for them, that you might want to check out. Ok, so they're tough, but how well do they sail? Neither boat is a high performance machine. They don't sail super close to weather, but they're fairly stable. The underwater profile is very low-tech. The rigs are short, and they have short waterlines, so they aren't very quick. They have a low sail area to displacement ratio. These boats are mainly family weekender/short haul cruisers. If you can avoid buying the shoal draft version, you'll do better. Neither boat can be easily trailered. Both boats will be less expensive to maintain than a 30-35 footer. Overall, the two boats are very, very similar, and if you had to choose between the two (assuming similar condition and accessories), I'd go with the C26 Mk II because of the active forum and sailing association. You can get lots of help and ideas to make the boat nice, for less money. Even though I owned a Coronado and found it to be a tough little boat, I would still give an edge in quality to Columbia. Hope that helps.
BubbleheadMd said: The Columbia 26 Mk II is not a re-hash of the Coronado 27. ... Hope that helps. Click to expand...
I think the Coronado rap for bad construction is mostly earned by the larger 35 CC.. and even they have their defenders. JSB is right about the G26... quite the upwind performer when properly handled, too. The Coronado you linked to looks in pretty nice shape, but the O/B does look like it's set up for regular use.. and it has an inboard??? hmmmmm. However if you can get the engine running it's a much better setup for rough conditions than any outboard on the transom on any boat. Anyhow for $5K nowadays you can certainly get more than 23 feet so no need to 'settle' for the G23 or the Crown 23. And if you and your family really take to this, or some free time opens up you're set for some real cruising - and it would be a shame to live in this area and not take advantage..
Well I thought I'd post an update since I've now looked at both the Grampian 23 and the Coronado 27 . Grampian 23 thoughts/notes: - nice little boat, seemed quite sturdy - new keel bolts and the 9.9hp 2-stroke worked well - lots of accessories including an inflatable dingy and a full set of charts - very large inside considering it's length, but I didn't like the fact that the head was flush up against the V-berth - seemed very moist inside. I stuck my hand under the V-berth cushion and it came out soaking wet...yuck Coronado 27 thoughts/notes: - Seems very well kept, it's obvious the owner takes pride in it's upkeep - sails seem to be in good shape, plus it has a roller furling - VERY dry inside; cushions didn't seem moist in the slightest, and I think there might have been a few tablespoons of water in the bilge - Iron keel was completely redone (epoxy, paint, keel bolts) about 3yrs ago - bottom painted less than a year ago, zincs done - the interior is huge for a boat this size, as is the head - the deck is also huge! The owner says he routinely puts 3 or 4 lawn chairs on the deck when he has guests on board and I can believe it. The deck also seemed very solid; I weigh 225lbs and I couldn't feel any give - all of the stanchions are solid (first time I've seen this) - I really like the deck design; no more squeezing by the shrouds to get to the fore-deck - diesel exhaust elbow replaced a few years ago (apparently these are expensive) - new 3 blade prop - 2x brand new marine batteries Unfortunately the 8hp 2-stroke wouldn't start during our viewing, however I found out why he has it installed along with the inboard. The inboard is a 1985 Yanmar 8hp and the boat weighs 7000lbs. As a result the inboard only pushes it along at ~4kn, but with the IB+OB it does 6kn+. This is an issue as we have some very strong currents around here. Maybe not the most elegant solution, but it works. My wife and I both get good vibes from this boat. It's the first one where I didn't bother taking pictures or notes because I knew I'd be seeing it again.
Pointy_End said: The inboard is a 1985 Yanmar 8hp and the boat weighs 7000lbs. As a result the inboard only pushes it along at ~4kn, but with the IB+OB it does 6kn+. This is an issue as we have some very strong currents around here. Maybe not the most elegant solution, but it works. My wife and I both get good vibes from this boat. It's the first one where I didn't bother taking pictures or notes because I knew I'd be seeing it again. Click to expand...
I am still trying to decide two things: between a smaller boat (about 23') and one about 27'. If about 23' then which has the nicer sailing characteristics of these two examples? I am looking at a Grampion 23 which is a bit over-priced but in good condition apparently. He is asking $2500 (C) without outboard, dinghy or BBQ. or more with those "bits". On the other hand, there is a Aquarius 23 which is ugly inside, but seems to have all the sailing parts and has a trailer. It would be more or less "camping" for a while. It is also cheap and has a centreboard. I quite like the idea of the c/b and being able to store the boat without a lot of expense. I will be trying quite hard to avoid hairy weather anyway. I did notice that the head in the Grampion is pretty snug to the head end of the forepeak berth and that could be bad for folk with noses. We would not get a lot of use in now, but that should increase later and make something bigger worthwhile then. The cabin on the Grampion being a bigger proportion of the boat than is common seems helpful for (sometimes) rainy West Coast conditions near Vancouver Island. Thanks for any comments.
Thanks Loren. I have had a suggestion of a Haida from a friend too. It is an advantage that it was designed for that B.C. area. I will keep an eye out for one.
For Arcb: That is very impressive on the family togetherness front. We did once fit 5 total, with 3 kids, into a borrowed 22', but it was a lot of work moving things around. Just two people should be a lot easier. The leaks in the rain sound like a bit of a puzzle. Thanks for the warning. I should try to look on a rainy day!
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A boat with a BN of 1.6 or greater is a boat that will be reefed often in offshore cruising. Derek Harvey, "Multihulls for Cruising and Racing", International Marine, Camden, Maine, 1991, states that a BN of 1 is generally accepted as the dividing line between so-called slow and fast multihulls.
The Grampian 23 is a recreational keelboat, built predominantly of fibreglass, with wood trim. It has a masthead sloop rig, a spooned raked stem, an angled transom, a transom-hung rudder controlled by a tiller and a stub keel with a swing keel, or optional fixed fin keel. It displaces 3,200 lb (1,451 kg) and carries 1,033 lb (469 kg) of lead ...
Grampian 23 is a 23′ 3″ / 7.1 m monohull sailboat designed by Alex McGruer and built by Grampian Marine between 1971 and 1976. ... The lower a boat's ratio is, the less power it takes to drive the boat to its nominal hull speed or beyond. Read more. Formula. D/L = (D ÷ 2240) ÷ (0.01 x LWL)³ D: Displacement of the boat in pounds. LWL ...
The Grampian 23 was not as successful a seller as had been anticipated with only about 300 being built starting in 1972. All hulls were built in Oakville, ON but some were fitted in Edenton, NC. While not many were made it remains a very popular boat today, especially with those wanting to trailer their boat. Visit the ...
The Grampian 23 was a recreational keelboat, built predominantly of fibreglass, with wood trim. It has a masthead sloop rig, a spooned raked stem, an angled ...
Price. 1977. 23.3'. 8'. 3.6'. Michigan. $4,500. Description: Great starter boat, new mainsail and storm jib, also has old main sail in fair condition, sanded and new bottom paint two years ago still looks good.
Sep 21, 2005. #2. Excellent boat - loads of space. You should have a look at the Grampian web site and do some research on the G-23 there. I have a G-26 and absolutely love her. Fast (class champion 3 years straight, & overall fleet champion one year (over 100 other boats). Now the G-23 won't go as fast as the G-26, but they were made the same ...
Grampian Marine Limited was a Canadian boat builder based in Oakville, Ontario. The company specialized in the design and manufacture of fiberglass sailboats. [1] The company was founded by Jim Bisiker in 1962 and operated until 1977. [1] ... The Grampian 23 was not as successful, selling only a few hundred examples. ...
The Grampian 23 is a 23.25ft masthead sloop designed by Alex McGruer and built in fiberglass by Grampian Marine between 1971 and 1976. 450 units have been built. The Grampian 23 is a light sailboat which is a reasonably good performer. It is reasonably stable / stiff and has a low righting capability if capsized. It is best suited as a day-boat.
Grampian 23 thoughts/notes: - nice little boat, seemed quite sturdy. - new keel bolts and the 9.9hp 2-stroke worked well. - lots of accessories including an inflatable dingy and a full set of charts. - very large inside considering it's length, but I didn't like the fact that the head was flush up against the V-berth.
1973 23' Grampian 23 Daysailer sailboat for sale in Florida. 2010 Upgrades: Keel stripped and refiberglassed, bottom painted, two new stays, all new lines, wired for shore power, two new rail cleats, new 360 light installed at top of the mast, new running lights half way up mast (both have new wire fed through the mast but needs hooked to battery.
Grampian Marine was one of the first manufacturers fiberglass sailboats in Canada. It was founded by Jim Bisiker, owner of a construction company at Oakville, Ontario. Bisiker, along with Dick Kneulman and John Burn began building small fiberglass boats under license from Dyer Yachts of Rhode Island, USA. At the time, Dyer was at the leading edge for this technology and all three men had spent ...
Aug 18 (2024!). update! Hello everyone. I have disabled the forum due to an enormous increase in difficult-to-counter spambots, causing very high bandwidth and disk space costs. Non-spambot traffic to the site has dropped significantly and I believe the Grampian Facebook group is probably a more up-to-date source of information on Grampian boats these days.
31' Mariner Ketch - Major Restoration & Repower - New Rigging & Sails Tenants Harbor Maine, Maine Asking $45,000
Rating (PHRF-LO) : 258. Price range: $5,000 to $7,000. Many of the Grampian 23s on the market will probably date back to the early 1970s. Nevertheless, this is a spacious 23 footer with enough room for a private head. The large interior comes at the expense of the cockpit, which is a little small in comparison to other boats in this size range.
Grampian Marine was a Canadian fiberglass sailboat builder from 1962 to 1977. It produced 25 models of sailboats, including the Grampian 26, 30, 34, and 46, as well as the US 41 and the Triangle series.
No Boats Found. Grampian 23 Sail Boats for Sale by owner, dealer, and broker. Canada's source for Grampian 23 Boats buy & sell.
Grampian 23 , 7.01 , 0 , 0.7 , grampian-23 , 6.25 , 1452.0 , 4507 , , Sailing boat , 0.7 , 7.01 , grampian-23 , 0 , 1452.0 , Grampian 23 , 4507 , 6.25 , , Sailing ...
The Grampian 23 was built in Ontario, Canada in the 70's and was designed, I believe, by Alex McGruer. Its very roomy for a 23 (as I'm sure you noticed). Grampian was a builder of relatively inexpensive boats and the design and construction was not up to the standards of some other high quality boats built in the same area in the same general ...
Learn about the GRAMPIAN 26, a Canadian-built sailboat with fin keel, masthead sloop rig and cored deck. Find out its dimensions, sail area, displacement, ballast, accommodations and more, or join the sailboat forum to discuss it.
23.95: Est. Forestay Length: 22.30 ft / 6.80 m ... Download Boat Record: Notes. Also called the Grampian Classic 22. Originally called simply the CLASSIC 22. This design later appeared under a number of other names as well. ... Like the LWL, it will vary with the weights of fuel, water, stores and equipment. A boat's actual draft is usually ...