hunter 44 sailboat review

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Just How Good Are Hunters?

• Thread starter Caribbeanknight1
• Start date Aug 1, 2013
• Hunter Owner Forums
• Ask A Hunter Owner

Caribbeanknight1

I realize I am asking a biased audience but I know many here have owned other makes of sailboat. I have only limited sailing experience but I have been so impressed with my H240 vs the other boats on the lake. I know Hunter are considered "production boats" but you get so much boat for the price and they seem to sail as fast as anything in the same class yet the simplicity of the boat allows a beginner like me to sail like a pro. What am I missing? Where do Hunters not stack up to the much more expensive competition?  

When crossing an ocean. Hunters can do it and do but most prefer a blue water boat. Many can argue this subject but Hunters are not "blue water boats." I love mine and it is great for coastal cruising. However, I would not want to cross an ocean in it.  

Consider this that Ferrari cars are "production cars" even though they may make only twenty-four of that model. I'm in the September of my years now and have grown up with sailboats since the late nineteen fifties. I've had ten new boats, the last five have been Hunters because of the quality of construction that I have observed. They are a good company and made in America. Years ago at the beginning of the dawn of fiberglass right after WWII, sailboats were hulls with decks and minimal interiors. When you looked under the interior seats of the Cal there was raw fiberglass. The hot boat at that time was the plywood Thunderbird or T-bird, an excellent 26 footer that could be built at home. It took a while for sail boat companies to learn how to design and use fiberglass. And building the interior was a work of art with each piece of wood being measure for that individual boat. Some companies still build their boats that way but it is labor intensified. Some of our boat companies couldn't compete with the Asian boat companies with their cheaper labor and we began to import Fugis, Yamaha's, etc. So our boat companies responded with learning how to build boats like old Ford cars with every piece fitting every boat on the line. A company could cut ten pieces for ten boats at one time and have them all fit. Hunter was one of those companies that lead the way in modern day boat construction. But one of the things that convinced me to buy Hunter was their program of checking back with owners and asking what is working--what is not working. Then they would make adjustments in the plant and construction of their new models. I have watch improvements on all of my five Hunters. I suspect the new models are even better and have passed me by. "How can we make it better" seems to be the mantra of Hunter company and indeed, they have been one of the most innovating boat companies during the past twenty five years. Look at the B and R rid, roller furling mains and jibs, sugar scoop sterns, "tourist" seats in the stern, and the list goes on. Even where you can't see things they made improvements such as all plastic tankage or all through hull fittings in one place accessible for checking. Some of these same innovations and/or improvements you cannot find on some of the more expensive boats....however individual perception is a fascinating study. To complete my point, I drive a Subaru Forester which gets me to the store quite well. Would I like a Ferrari? I'm sure I would have fun going to the store in one but I doubt if it would get me there quicker (we have stop lights in my town) or anymore comfortable..... I suspect I would enjoy the purr of the Ferrari motor or the smell of the interior. I suspect I could enjoy sailing an Oyster sailboat but quite frankly I am in love with my Hunter 27. At my age it is a delight to sail and I can sail it by myself. And I don't have to repair or add items to make it sailable. It may be that the owner of a Ferrari will look down at me as might the owner of an Oyster. But the end result is that I'm having as much fun as they are sailing. So if you think your H240 is well made, you are correct. If you think your H240 is a good investment, you probably are correct as well. The end result is how much you enjoy sailing and cruising in your boat. I hope you get as much satisfaction from your Hunter as I do mind. I wish you well. By the way, I'm eighty in years and have sail many, many boats over the years. I still think of my Hunter 27 as a MGA of the boating world....a fun boat.  

I am new here and just purchased a 2006 Hunter 33.1. I have owned an ODay 25, a Hooks Marine Custom 34,Heavy Bluewater Boat. and also own a Nimble Nomad. Sailing for over 20 years. I do my own work and have read several books on boat construction. I was a Machinist Mate in the Navy and operated a 1200 lb Super Heated Steam Main Propulsion engine room. A Hunter is a production boat which seems to have it's fair share of detractors but from what I have seen and inspected it is a well built boat. The boat I bought had a owners manual which detailed every system on board in detail, which is not something I saw on any other boat, I also found the manual on line. All thru hulls are centrally located easy to close which is what you should do when you leave the boat. I found all the equipment installed up to the intended and installed properly. BTW I am perfectly qualified to survey the boat myself but hired a qualified survey to do a survey and he found no construction issues and only minor gear issues. I had used the same surveyor last week on a Catalina 30 which I walked away from at a cost of $800.00 for survey and lift, money well spent. Bang for the buck the boat is a great boat. As on all boats you have to balance the boat you buy with the intended use and your skill level. Good luck on your hunt for a boat, sometimes it takes time to find the boat that loves you. Jim  

Les said: I still think of my Hunter 27 as a MGA of the boating world....a fun boat. Click to expand

The Italians do not use Ferraris to go to the store either, they keep them in the garage and drive a Fiat. Each engine is hand assembled by a single highly trained and experienced individual. The seats are hancrafted from selected cuts of leather. That is not a production automobile. The use of computers has revolutionized manufacturing processes, we can now reach tolerances that before were to expensive to achieve. The difference observed between specialty builders and production manufacturers mostly rest in the quality of the materials being used and the quality controls. While the first may accept the cost of having to redo a job the other may decide to overlook it. Ferrari engine blocks undergo rigorous testing with a rather large percentage being scrapped and the metal recycled. The quality on production automobiles and boats has been improving but there are still a number of lemons reaching the marketplace. Don't get me wrong Hunter puts out a "Ferrari" of a design, uses good matrials and good components and price the boats fairly. Production errors that do not affect the safety of the boat are routinely overlooked but that is the tradeoff we are willing to accept between Price and Quality.  

Crazy Dave Condon

The Hunter water ballast sailboats were designed for the trailerable sailor as I was very much involved with them from the start. The 23.5 is my baby and I outsold all other dealers of the 240. I also sold Catalina, Beneteau, ComPac, Precision, MacGregor and many others over the years. I have heard all the Fiddlesticks about boats and so on. All to include the Hunters have their good points. When you say this is a blue water boat of course referencing the 240, it was not designed to cross an ocean. As to a productin boat, well guess what, so are the rest of the crowd as I have been in all the plants except for the MacGregor. If the two of you want to contact me, please feel free thru the forum email and I will be glad to help. My info is based on information and experience. crazy dave condon  

Not "blue water boats"? Don't know about the newer Hunters, but I bought a Cherubini 37-C specifically to be my "blue water boat". It's built like a tank and reported by far-too-many-to-ignore owners as surprisingly fast. I wouldn't think twice about cruising the oceans in Fred V - the boat is fine, it's the captain that's questionable!  

FredV said: Not "blue water boats"? Don't know about the newer Hunters, but I bought a Cherubini 37-C specifically to be my "blue water boat". It's built like a tank and reported by far-too-many-to-ignore owners as surprisingly fast. I wouldn't think twice about cruising the oceans in Fred V - the boat is fine, it's the captain that's questionable! Click to expand

Hunter Quality I spent the last year repairing and replacing parts on my 2002 H456. Eighty percent done by professionals and everyone of them from the diesel mechanic to the electrical engineer to the plumber has commented on how well this boat is built and with quality parts. Just be prepared to add 50K of offshore equipment and go where you want to go.  

wifeofgonzo

A Biased Reply I have a 2005 Hunter 36. In my opinion, the 36 is one of the best designed boats Hunter has made. I agree that the company does listen to owners and make changes. Lately it is their downfall. Go to the sail show - I don't think anyone leaves the dock. No storage space, difficult to do things underway, all designed to be at the marina not on the hook. Finding the right boat boat is like buying house. You know when you're "home". New is just as much of a pain as not, still bugs to work through. Our friends spend more time fixing their brand new Beneteau than sailing. I also agree I would not take our boat blue water. Not because she isn't seaworthy, but because of the keel. She is perfect for the coastal cruising that we do. Easy to single hand, perfect for two to be very comfortable, but big enough for friends to join us every now and then.  

John Murphy

CRBKT 1, I looked at all kinds of boats from Fla,to Apls, to New Eng. in the 37-40 range. I stayed away from Hunters 'cuz of my late 70's experience w/ them where they were a "Package Boat": carpeting not only on the cabin sole but UP THE BULKHEADS & ACROSS THE CEILING !!! REALLY!!, & a plastic "garbage bag" filled w/ 2 PFDS, some lines & a couple other items that made it; "Ready To Sail". I bought an Ericson back then & loved the John Holland designs & quality materials ( real, thick teak not vinyl over plywood ) & craftsmanship. Had it 30+years. Anywho, I had to swallow my pride & got a rude come-uppance. I bought a 1997 Hunter 376!! : o Learned it had been The Boat of the Year!! I am constantly comparing it w/ similar Catalinas ( who also have come a long way since the 70's) & Benateaus,etc. $ for $, spaciousness, brightness below ( Benateaus are "bat caves"), comfort, ( the pass-thru stern stateroom ( 2 doors, to galley & head ) surpass the other boats. I'm a USNA Offshore Instructor & USPS Safety Officer. I agree w/ my fellow sailors that Hunters are NOT Offshore boats, but Coastal Cruisers. Mine has been to Maine & back & all over the Chesapeake Bay, whose summer squalls can get pretty nasty. They're not Tartans, nor Sabres, but if you're not going Offshore, they're a GREAT boat. "Fair Winds & Following Seas...." " Murph "  

I have one of those 1970's package Hunters, a 1977 30 with the carpet everywhere. These boats were built to meet a price point and they did. They were well made and still do what they were intended to do. Amazingly much of that carpet is intact and as she is a dry boat not moldy and while not as attractive as teak, its ok. I sail the boat not its interior and more than 36 years after she left the factory she is still a fast boat for her class. My crew member who owns a Catalina 30 marvels over the standing room and comfort below. She is no Ferrari, she will never cross an ocean but she gets me a round the Cheaspeake and the Delaware and that's what I bought her for.  

My first boat was an 85 Hunter 25.5. I also looked at the 24 foot ODay but liiked the separate bulkhead going into the V berth on the Hunter, making it seem bigger. . It only drew 3'3', you needed a porta potty but it sailed well. When looking for a newer boat, I was directed to both Catalina and Beneteau. Both nice boats but I liked the style and the amount of light coming thru on the Hunter along with the lighter wood. The boat sails great, even in higher winds and the in-mast furling doesn't cost you a lot of speed. I frequently get over 7 knots and topped out at 8.4 kts. It does have the North Sails. Boats are personal preference but I'll put the Hunter up there with the other producton boats anyday.  

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Are Hunter Sailboats Any Good? (My Honest Experience)

There are a ton of different sailboat brands in the world today. Trying to decide which one is best, is no easy task. It comes down to a bit of fact and personal opinion, but that’s my opinion.

Hunter is a very well-known brand of sailboats. Hunter sailboats are a good boat depending on your needs and what you will be using your boat for primarily. They were designed as a more budget-friendly boat with all of the basic features needed for good coastal cruising.

The debate about whether a Hunter sailboat is good or not has been going on since the company started and there are a lot of pros and cons out there on the sailboat forums. This article is going to go over Hunters and cover as many of the pros and cons as possible. There will be facts and my personal opinion throughout this article. I just want to cover as much as possible so you will have the knowledge you need when considering a Hunter.

The History Of Hunter Sailboats

In the 1800s Henry Luhrs, a German immigrant, outfitted trading ships. He continued to work on boats his whole life and eventually passed the skills on to his grandson. His grandson was also named Henry and continued the family trade on the Jersey coast, building and repairing recreational and fishing boats. After a while, Henry and his sons started the Hunter Company in 1973 in Alachua, Florida, as a sailboat manufacturer.

Luhrs was the owner of the company, but the early boat designs were done by a man named John E. Cherubini. One of the most recognizable boats of the Hunter legacy is the Cherubini Hunter 30. In my opinion, this is a fantastic boat.

Towards the end of the 1980s, the company did run into trouble. Luhrs was not necessarily running the company at this time, he was out sailing the world and had let a board of management take over. The management team had started to run the company into the ground. They did this by only offering a 1-year warranty, poorly built boats, and terrible customer service for its customers. This would be sure to end any company. Luhrs, with fear his company would go under, decided to return immediately and address the issues at hand. He decided to do a whole restructuring of production and decided extending the warranty from one year to five years would be a good start. Luhrs also hired Canadian designer Rob Mazza in 1991 to take over the design and coordinate the production process. These many steps and others helped get the company back on track.

Hunter is responsible for several market innovations, including their trademark stainless steel cockpit arch and their use of the B&R rig. The B&R rig uses swept spreaders that are usually angled aft, together with “stays” running diagonally downward from the tip of the spreaders to the attachment of the next pair of spreaders to the mast or to the intersection of the mast with the deck, that facilitates a pre-bend of the mast (curving aft).

In 2012 Hunter Marine entered Chapter 11 bankruptcy. The company was sold in August 2012 to David E. Marlow, owner of Marlow Yachts and the name changed to Marlow-Hunter, LLC.

Marlow-Hunter continues to produce sailboats to this day and I must say….they are beautiful designs.

Before we start the debate about whether Hunter sailboats are good or not, let’s look at one or two of their better models.

Cherubini Hunter 30

The Cherubini Hunter 30 is one of the most recognizable Hunters out there today. They were first built in the year 1973 and were made until the year1983. Roughly a thousand of these boats were made and you can find them all over the world.

Here are some more facts about the Hunter 30.

• Hull Type: Fin with rudder on skeg
• Rigging Type: Masthead Sloop
• LOA: 30.40 ft / 9.27 m
• Displacement: 9,700 lb / 4,400 kg
• Beam: 10.17 ft / 3.10 m

I have personally sailed on this boat and I found it to be very solid and a great all-around boat. I sailed it in the Gulf of Mexico and the bays around the area and it was always a great experience.

When sailing it felt very sturdy in the water. I never got the feeling that we were being pushed off course in the slightest. There were also a few times that we heeled over and put the rails in the water and it handled that just fine. From the outside, the boat is very recognizable with its unique design, but the cabin below is quite a common layout and design.

I feel like the cabin resembles most 30-foot boats of that time period. There might have been a touch more space in the overall design than other boats but the look and feel are all the same if you compare it to a Catalina or O’Day of the same time period. That is my personal opinion of course.

Would I purchase one of these for myself? I would definitely consider it. They are a great design and very solid. I don’t think I would have any problems with this boat, whether I was sailing it on a lake or across the Atlantic. Some will say it is not a bluewater boat, but I have read plenty of articles about people actually sailing in the bluewater. It just comes down to the captain and what you are comfortable with.

Let’s look at another type of Hunter, the Hunter 37 Legend!

The Hunter 37 Legend

This boat is a less commonly seen Hunter but still a very impressive one. Warren Luhrs was the designer of this vessel. It was not in production long just from 1986 to 1988, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t a good design. This design gets great reviews from the internet and has a great design for speed and comfort. I have only researched this one and watched videos about it. I would very much like to sail one of these someday, but they are not very common as I mentioned.

• Hull Type: Fin w/spade rudder
• Rigging Type: Fractional Sloop
• LOA: 37.50 ft / 11.43 m
• LWL: 31.33 ft / 9.55 m
• Beam: 12.83 ft / 3.91 m
• S.A. (reported): 704.00 ft 2  / 65.40 m 2
• Draft (max): 6.67 ft / 2.03 m
• Displacement: 14,900 lb / 6,759 kg

To get a better look at this boat please take a look at the video below. It is a quick overview of the boat itself.

After researching this boat, I would very much like to have it. This one has a ton of great features and would be perfect for some long weekend sail trips with a good group of friends. If you find a good deal on this one, I would take a second look.

Let us address one of the bigger issues in the next section, which is the bad reviews Hunter sailboats get.

Why Do Hunter Sailboats Get Such Bad Reviews? Personal Opinion

I have done a lot of research and read a lot of forums about Hunter sailboats online and they tend to get a bad rap. There are a lot of discussions about how they are cheaply made and won’t handle open ocean sailing, but I have seen videos of them handling it just fine. Maybe people have had bad experiences with a Hunter before?

There are also bad reviews on certain designs which make sense. Not every sailboat that Hunter has produced, is something I would consider. That can be said about every boat company. I’m sure even Catalina (my favorite brand) has a bad design here or there. One of the complaints was a Hunter sailboat designed without a backstay. This is very upsetting to some sailors and I would have to agree.

The backstay is what helps hold up the back end of the boom when sailing. Technically the mainsail does this as well but the backstay helps keep the shape much better. I have lowered the sail before without a backstay and you have to be very careful because your boom is going to drop right into the cockpit if you don’t have some other means of support. Some people may have a good reason for no backstay, maybe in a racing condition, but for casual life on the water, I definitely want one.

I wouldn’t rule out Hunters just for this or maybe one bad experience on one, you need to give the Hunter brand a chance. Everybody has an opinion on the internet and a lot of them will be against Hunter sailboats. That’s the internet for you though. The internet can say whatever it wants about anything in this world, even if it doesn’t have good evidence. That’s why I think personal experience is the best evidence here.

Take car brands for example. So many people will say don’t buy a ford or a chevy or dodge because it will break down on you. To be clear, every brand of car has had models broken down on them. It is not necessarily the brand, it’s the improper care of the vehicle or a random breakdown of an engine part. The brand itself still makes good vehicles you just had bad luck.

That is why I say you need to try out a few Hunters before claiming them to be a terrible boat.

The last thing I will say about this subject is that I have met multiple Hunter sailboat owners and they have loved their boats. I have not met one captain who owned a Hunter and did not like it. I only found out about their bad reviews by going online and researching them. Take all of this with a grain of salt though, I am just giving you my honest opinion. Check out the video below for another opinion on Hunter sailboats. This is a great video, be sure to check out his channel as well.

Final Thoughts

This article talked about Hunter sailboats and if they are any good. The history of the Hunter brand was discussed and is currently named Marlow-Hunter because the Marlow Yacht company purchased Hunter in 2011. We discussed the Cherubini 30 and the 37 Legend, both of which are great boats in my opinion. That was a big topic in the last section of this article, opinions. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and that’s what keeps these great sailboat discussions going. We need these great discussions to keep going and fill our minds with as much knowledge as possible. Get out there and talk to people with Hunter sailboats to get the most information you possibly can. I hope this article provided you with some Hunter knowledge to help you in your sailing life. Cheers!

Boatlifehq owner and author/editor of this article.

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Sailboat Review: Dufour 41

• By Herb McCormick
• September 17, 2024

When it comes to a discussion of the great European naval architects of contemporary times—and it’s a long list, indeed—certain names immediately pop to mind. Many are French. Philippe Briand made his mark creating boats for a roster of production builders (Baltic, Jeanneau, CNB) before pivoting to the superyacht set (Perini Navi, Royal Huisman). Jean-Marie Finot was more or less the father of an era of the best Vendée Globe solo round-the-world racers ever to compete in that grueling contest. Marc Van Peteghem and Vincent Lauriot Prévost (VPLP Design) are the current masters of offshore multihulls. The talented tandem of Jean Berret and Olivier Racoupeau are ubiquitous as the creators of many French brands, and sit at the forefront of their profession. 

To me, however, one of the more underrated European ­design mavens, and one who definitely belongs in that rarefied grouping, is Umberto Felci. While Felci was born in Milan and still operates from his base in Italy, I’ve always considered him a huge influence in French ­boatbuilding­—largely because of his longtime association with Dufour Yachts, where he’s been the principal designer for some 15 years. 

During that time, I’ve sailed many a Felci boat, as he’s been a consistent presence in Cruising World ’s annual Boat of the Year contest . He has won multiple times with his Dufour entries, including the 560 Grand Large (2014), the 382 Grand Large (2015), and the 520 Grand Large (2018). All of these Grand Large boats shared a similar DNA, and the Dufour booths at the major boat shows were easily ­recognizable for their similar lines and matching beige canvas dodgers and sail covers. The only huge difference across the fleet was their respective sizes.

All that changed in a big way in 2019, after the Fountaine Pajot group acquired Dufour and decided to make each new offering a singular model in form and styling. Which brings us to Felci’s newest design, the Dufour 41. 

Aesthetically, it’s safe to say that the bright-blue Dufour 41 at this past year’s Annapolis Sailboat Show in Maryland was one of the more distinctive-looking yachts on display. It has a rounded bow, ample beam, and not one but two chines, both carried almost the entire length of the boat—one just above the waterline, another just below the reverse sheer line, which is accentuated by prominent molded bulwarks. This boat looks and feels much larger than its 41 feet length overall. Forward, an integrated bowsprit for the ground tackle and the tack point for the asymmetric kite heightens the futuristic vibe. As does the series of three sleek windows in the hull (along with the additional pair of windows overhead in the coachroof). There is not a stick of timber to be found anywhere. 

Topsides, the ­combination of wide side decks and outboard shrouds makes for easy egress when moving forward or aft. The emphasis on “outdoor living” is underscored by a generous cockpit with twin wheels (but, as with all Dufours, a single rudder, which makes backing down easier and with more control). There’s also wraparound seating, including a cushioned daybed, as well as a drop-down transom, which doubles as the porch/platform for the barbecue well aft. All this is revolved around a table—a pretty sweet, comfortable layout that lends the impression of lounging aboard a much bigger boat. 

All the related equipment is first-rate. There’s B&G instrumentation, including the chart plotter and autopilot; a Quick vertical windlass with helm controls for the Delta anchor; and a Side-Power (Sleipner) bow thruster, which I reckon is a luxurious touch on a 41-footer. Our test boat was set up with a nice set of Elvstrøm sails, including a traditional mainsail (an in-mast furling mainsail is available) with a cool stack-pack arrangement that tucks into itself and is secured with shock cords. For our Boat of the Year trials, we test all the emergency rudders, and the one on the 41 was exceptional. 

Construction is straightforward and robust. The hull is vacuum-infused with solid glass below the waterline and a foam core above. There are a pair of molded-in channels for the plumbing and electrical wiring. The plywood bulkheads are laminated to the hull. The keel is cast iron. And, as with every Dufour going back to the company’s origins, a wine rack is stashed under the floorboards. 

Ardizio Design is ­responsible for the belowdecks accoutrements, accommodations and floor plan. Its team used those aforementioned chines and, more specifically, the voluminous interior that the chines created, to wide advantage. As with Dufour’s other models, there are three packages of features, trim and equipment—on the 41, these are labeled Adventure, Ocean and Performance—depending on how the boat will be used (basic sailing, dedicated cruising or racing). With the 41, there are also two interior options: either three or four staterooms. Both have a straight-line galley to starboard, with the dining table and wraparound settee to port.

Our test boat had the three-stateroom layout, with a spacious master forward and a pair of double-berth staterooms aft. It also had three heads, which, to be honest, seems like a bit of overkill on a 41-foot boat. The second head, in the center of the boat, can be replaced with stowage, which is the setup I’d prefer. 

The 41 sports a double-­spreader rig with swept-back spreaders and a self-­tacking jib. The double-ended German-style mainsheet, anchored at midboom, is easily trimmed with a pair of electric winches (an optional electric winch for the mainsail is ­available). There’s no traveler; after all, this is a cruising boat. 

Under power, the 50 hp Volvo Penta with a saildrive configuration had us zipping along at better than 6 knots. This was one of the quieter boats, decibel-wise, in the 2024 fleet. But we were all itching to hoist the sails, and we were not disappointed. At first, in a fitful breeze that was just filling in, we still made over 5 knots in 6 to 8 knots of wind. Soon enough, the pressure built into the 10- to 12-knot range, just in time to hoist the boat’s big asymmetric kite. On a tight reach, we made an effortless 7.5 knots, and the helm was just delightful, with only a light three-finger touch required for full control. 

Those Grand Large prizewinners from years past were, of course, all Felci designs. While this new Dufour looks absolutely nothing like its older siblings, it sails just as well, if not better. Felci may have changed the recipe under the company’s new regime, but he hasn’t forgotten that what we really want is pretty simple: We want to go for a fine sail.

Dufour 41 Specifications

Did You Know?

French boatbuilders were pioneers in fiberglass-sailboat manufacturing. Naval architect/engineer Michel Dufour joined their ranks in 1964 with the launching of the Sylphe, a radical (for its time) 21-foot pocket cruiser with a masthead rig and fin keel with attached ballast bulb. More than 400 were built in a 10-year production run.

Dufour has ramped up its introduction of new models in the past five years, and now has nine in production ranging from 37 to 61 feet, with a 44-footer on tap to be introduced in the United States this fall. Of that collection, the company’s 41, 470 and 530 are all available with electric auxiliary-propulsion options.

Dufour has laid out an aggressive growth strategy, planning to introduce two models each year for the next several years, and replacing its entire fleet within four years. As for the 41, a company representative said that about a third of the run will go to private owners, a third will be purchased by charter operators, and a third will go into charter-management programs.

Herb McCormick is a CW editor-at-large and was a 2024 Boat of the Year judge.

• More: Boat of the Year , dufour yachts , Print September 2024 , Sailboat Reviews , Sailboats
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• Sailboat Reviews

Hunter 30: Still the Affordable Fantasy

Production coastal cruiser offers a lot of boat for not a lot of bucks..

Hunter Marine began building auxiliary sailboats in 1974, largely as the result of the first oil embargo and the new energy consciousness that followed. Founded by Warren Luhrs, Hunter began as a division of the powerboat-maker Silverton Yachts, which was interested in expanding its offerings and taking advantage of the new interest in saving fuel.

The companys aim was high-volume production, keeping prices low by standardizing design, making as few tooling changes as possible, and offering its boats fully equipped-while other companies were selling things like bow pulpits and lifelines as options on a 30-foot boat. The original Hunter boats were marketed as the affordable fantasy and came with sails, dock lines, fenders, life jackets, and fire extinguishers, in what Hunter called the Cruise Pak of standard features. About the only option available on the early Hunters was a choice of shoal- or deep-draft keel.

Photo by CeCe Stoldt

In 2012, Hunter Marine was sold to David Marlow, the builder of Marlow Yachts. With this change of ownership came a change in corporate goals and product offerings. Hunter Marine began-like its chief competitor, Catalina Yachts-with a small group of standardized models. From 1974 through 1977, it offered only the Hunter 25, 27, and 30 models, and from 1977 through 1979, the builder added only the 33 and 37. Today, Hunter-Marlow makes nine production models ranging from trailerable daysailors (15 to 22 feet) to mid-size (27 to 37 feet) and large (40 to 50 feet) keelboats.

Also, Hunters high-volume-production business model has been replaced with the Marlow ethos, which is more focused on yacht-level quality than production volume. Marlow-Hunter produces about 100 boats each year, including trailerable and cruising sailboats, as well as Mainship powerboats, according to Greg Emerson, Marlow-Hunters director of sales.

The Hunter 30

Designed by John Cherubini and built from 1974 to 1983, the Hunter 30 is a coastal cruiser that was designed to offer a lot of boat for little money. With a focus on streamlining construction to boost production volume, Hunter aimed to offer an affordable coastal racer-cruiser. More than 1,000 Hunter 30s were built over the nine-year production run; however, a number of them were sold as Quest 30s, which was essentially a sail-away, bare-hull kit boat, and the purchaser completed the interior and the fitting out.

For this report, we checked out a 1980 Hunter 30 (hull #934) and a 1978 model (hull #568). In contrast to later Hunters, the early Cherubini-designed models were conservative and conventional in design. The longer sister models-the 33 and 37-were, in our opinion, good-looking boats, moderately styled, with an attractive bow line and sheer, and a pleasing coachroof. The smaller boats, the 25 and 27, instead traded in some styling characteristics in order to pack a lot of room into a short waterline, which left them with higher-sided with boxier cabinhouses.

The 30 lies somewhere in between-handsome from some angles but a bit too flat in the sheer and high in the cabintop to impress traditionalists. Still, most of those traditionalists would consider it a much more attractive boat than the modern Euro-styled Hunters.

The 30s hull is very full-to maximize interior space-but otherwise, its quite typical of the racer-cruisers of the 1970s. Overall, the boat is 29 feet, 11 inches long-the maximum allowable length under the then-popular Midget Ocean Racing Club (MORC) rule. The short overhangs result in a long waterline, fundamental for sailing speed. The beam, at just a hair over 10 feet, is moderate by 1970s standards, but narrow in comparison to the big 30-footers that have appeared since. The Catalina 30, for example, is nine inches wider, and many current boats carry a foot more beam (and carry it further aft) than the Hunter 30.

A conventional fin keel, drawing 5 feet, 3 inches, was standard, with a 4-foot shoal keel as an option. We test-sailed the deep-keel version, and suspect it is much to be preferred, unless you absolutely need the shallower draft. Company literature lists the displacement and ballast as identical on both models. That would make the shallow-keel version more tender, requiring crew to reef early as the wind pipes up.

The foredeck is on the smaller side for anchor work and sail handling because the cabinhouse extends quite far forward. The 1978 and later models have an anchor well built into the foredeck that is self-contained and large enough to hold over 400 feet of rode, or enough for two anchors. The test boat we sailed had a furling jib, a desirable option in view of the smallish foredeck.

A significant shortcoming of the boats design is the narrow sidedecks. The wide cabinhouse makes it clear that the designers top priority was interior room, with deck work being a distant consideration. Its near impossible to get past the chainplates, especially on the leeward side when under a press of canvas, without climbing atop the cabinhouse.

The boat has a good cockpit, a bit smaller than some other 30-footers (again, a result of maximizing cabin space). A wheel was standard on the boat; its small, which is good for moving around the cockpit, but less than ideal for helming, in our opinion

A T cockpit became standard following the 1980 models, and some people preferred that arrangement; however, you could lie down on the older bench seats, and you can’t with the T. The bench seats would benefit from some sort of drain arrangement since they trap water. A deep lazarette behind the cockpit offers additional on-deck storage.

A peculiarity of the decks on the early Hunters is that the nonskid pattern was not molded in as is customary on fiberglass decks. Instead, a nonskid aggregate was painted on. Given the age of the Hunter 30, the original aggregate is likely long gone, and owners have had to apply fresh nonskid paint or nonskid mat. Fortunately, such a repair is straightforward and an easy (although time-consuming), do-it-yourself project (see PS August 2008 and November 2013 online).

On the boats we examined, there was minimal sail-handling equipment on deck-one pair of jib-sheet winches, a small halyard winch for the jib, no winch for the main halyard, no Cunningham or vang, no control lines on the traveler, no flattening reef, a single jiffy reef block, two jib lead blocks out on the toerail, and no backstay adjuster. However, most H30 owners have added deck gear over the years, including a running backstay, so what youll find on Hunter 30s today will run the gamut. A large number of Hunter 30 owners who responded to our survey reported that their boat was rigged for singlehanding, making it easy to sail with a short- or single-handed crew.

The original Hunter 30 owners manual was a great example of a good, clear, simple manual. It has always amazed us how many other boat builders provide the buyer with little or no printed information. If you happen to own or buy a Hunter 30 (or pretty much any older Hunter model) thats missing its manual, simply download the PDF of the original from the Hunter-Marlow website.

courtesy of Kasi McCain

The 30s interior was a strong selling point for the Hunter 30. Almost every owner that responded to our survey commented on the size of the boats interior-often relative to low price-when talking about their reasons for buying the 30.

The interior is well laid out, but plain. Theres a lot here for the money, however. Some of the original details could use changing-the alcohol stove, lack of vents, and small water tank-and many owners have upgraded or modified these systems.

The Hunter 30s layout is conventional, with a good V-berth forward, then a head with small hanging locker opposite, settee berths on each side of the saloon with a double, a drop-leaf table in the middle, an L-shaped galley, with the sink underneath the companionway, and a quarter berth, with a small chart table at its head. The berths are of good size, and on some boats, the port settee can convert to a double berth.

The head area is roomy with enough space for comfortable showering and a door for privacy. The interior also offers lots of storage for a boat this size: The hanging locker can accommodate plenty of clothes and has an overhead shelf; and there are three large storage lockers in the V-berth, plus a host of drawers and under-seat storage in the saloon.

The icebox on the boat we looked at had minimal insulation and would benefit from several more inches all around. Many owners reported having upgraded with icebox conversion kits.

The deckhouse is high and wide, and this gives a look of spaciousness below. The white hull liner overhead helps offset the extensive teak veneer on the bulkheads, ceilings, sole, and furniture.

There are adequate ports and hatches to allow in enough light. The opening portlights-Hunter was one of the first production boats to offer numerous opening ports as standard-offer good ventilation. If youre considering buying a Hunter 30 that has not had any ventilation upgrades, you will probably want to add some Dorades or solar vents to keep the air moving when the ports and hatches must be closed.

The finish downbelow is typical of low-cost production boats, which depend on pre-fab components that can be rapidly installed in the hull. In our owner surveys, there were a great many complaints about the original joinerwork, door hinges, and hardware. The original cabin sole was made of teak veneer, so in instances of water damage, it often cannot be repaired but must be replaced.

For the first four years of the Hunter 30s production, a 12-horsepower Yanmar diesel was standard. After 1978, standard power was a 15-horsepower Yanmar, followed by an 18-horsepower Yanmar.

The 12 was a particularly noisy engine; the later models were less so. Most of the owners who completed our survey thought the engines were minimal for powering the boat, especially in any kind of head seas; however, by traditional standards, even the 12-horsepower model should be adequate for the weight and length of the boat. Although the 12 is highly praised for its reliability, many people will find the later Hunter 30s to be more desirable because of their larger, smoother-running engines.

Engine accessibility was criticized by almost all of the owners who completed our survey. Access is awful, said one. You must be a left-handed midget to work on this engine.

We thought accessibility was far from ideal, but not excessively bad for this size boat. With a big interior and a small cockpit, its hard to stuff an engine under the cockpit sole without cramping.

The Hunter 30 we sailed (with a Yanmar 12) was well behaved under power; it backed nicely, turned crisply, and drove through strong winds (in protected water) with no problem. Our impression was that the engines vibration and noise were more of a concern than its power. Anyone buying the boat with the Yanmar 12 will probably want to spend the time to get perfect alignment. Wed also look closely at the engine mounts and the shaft-strut mounting.

Some owners have re-powered their boats, usually opting for a Yanmar 2QM15 or Yanmar 2GM20F diesel with good results. A two-blade solid prop was standard, but a number of owners refitted the boat with a three-blade solid prop to improve powering. We doubt if the gain would offset the loss in sailing ability.

Theres a full skeg ahead of the rudder. If you have to remove the propeller shaft for some reason, youll have to remove the engine first, or tear the skeg off. On the shoal-draft version, the skeg also is something of a grounding vulnerability as the rudder is about as deep as the foot of the keel.

We were pleasantly surprised by the sailing performance of the Hunter 30. We sailed one in a long, triangular race-two triangles, then windward-leeward-windward legs-in heavy air, a little over 20 knots at the start.

Considering that the test boat had almost no sail controls and old sails, and that the underbody was rough and a bit weedy, the boat moved very well, going to weather respectably in a serious racing fleet, and reaching and running competitively.

The jib we used was the 130-percent genoa on roller furling, and this was about right for the boat in those conditions. When the wind faded near the end of race, the boat was clearly under-canvassed.

The boat is slightly under-rigged with its short mast. To sail well in light air, especially with the solid prop that most 30s have, a sizeable genoa is required. One Florida Panhandle-based owner reports that she sails with a 155 or 170 genoa, both of which are ideal in light winds and can be reefed with furling if the wind picks up. This boat sails nicely and does better in higher winds than light wind. …. It responds very quickly when tacking and can almost sail itself in steady winds, she explained.

We agree: The 30 is a good sailing boat, responsive and easy to steer. Its PHRF rating of 186 (New England fleet) would probably be very favorable. If the boat were rigged with a full complement of sail-handling gear and modern sails, it should be able to stay with other 30-footers of the same era, such as the Pearson 30, Catalina 30 (not the tall rig), and ODay 30. Since sailing is what sailing is all about, our opinion of the Hunter 30 was improved dramatically when we took a first in the races main-and-jib class.

Conclusions

The Hunter 30 was a boat built to a price point-to appeal to the sailor who wanted a lot of boat at an affordable price.

As long as a buyer understands that, not expecting custom quality at barnyard prices, the Hunter 30 can be a good value in a used boat. Many on the used market today have been repowered and had systems upgrades added like refrigeration. Be sure to look for delamination issues, check the nonskid, and examine the cabinhouse around the mast for sagging, as many of these Hunters have had compression post issues.

Its easy to pay too much for a used boat these days, but for a good-condition, roomy coastal cruiser that can make a good showing around the buoys, the Hunter 30 can be had at a decent price-a lot of cruisability for minimal investment. Youll find Hunter 30s on the used-boat market to be priced about the same as comparable boats (Catalina 30 and Pearson 30), with an average pricetag of about $13,500.

Pros -Many have been re-rigged for easy singlehanding from the cockpit -Roomy cockpit for a 30-footer -Minimal topside brightwork -Sizeable anchor well on deck -Many have been upgraded to furling headsails -Handholds run the full length of cabin

Cons -Limited foredeck space -Very narrow sidedecks -Standard, original ventilation was lacking, needs upgrades -Pre-1980 bench seats trap water, need drain added

Hunter Marine built the 30 with an aim to maximize interior space. 1. The galley came standard with an alcohol stove, a deep ice box, and a small sink; many owners have updated the cooktop and added some type of refrigeration. The sink is too small to effectively wash dishes. 2. The settees offer full-length berths. 3. The H30 fits a fair bit of interior storage in a small space, including drawers behind and under the settees. 4. The V-berth has additional storage under the bed, which is large enough to comfortably sleep two (friendly) adults. 5. A very small nav desk and a full-length quarter berth are situated to port of the companionway. Electronics can be mounted inside the companionway.

In construction, the Hunter 30 is very conventional—an economical, solid-glass layup in the hull and a balsa-cored deck with plywood for backing under cleats. A conventional flange, with a through-bolted aluminum toerail joins the hull and deck together. The basic construction is quite a contrast to that of present-day Hunters, which can generally be described as highly engineered and Euro-styled, at the opposite end of the spectrum from the early Hunters like the 30.

Testers’ opinion of the fiberglass work was that it was good but a little light—marginal for offshore sailing but strong enough for typical coastal cruising.

On one of the Hunter 30s we looked at, there was extensive delamination of the cockpit sole and the bench seats. There also were signs of sloppy glass work—ragged edges and un-resinated glass—in compartments and other out-of-sight places.

Quality-control problems also were cited by a surprisingly high number of the Hunter 30 owners we surveyed for this article. The problems often mentioned included improperly hooked-up fuel-return lines, chafed hoses, leaking ports, poorly fitted hatch boards and lazarette covers, improperly installed exhaust systems, and so on.

The Hunter 30 compares favorably, in price and performance, to other production boats in the same size range and of similar vintage.

• Marlow-Hunter
• Hunter Owners Group

RELATED ARTICLES MORE FROM AUTHOR

Great review and enlightening! Thanks for your knowledge!

Great coverage on the 30! I owned a Hunter 30 1994-2000. Live aboard at Harbor Island San Diego. Very nice experience. Yes, the Yanmar 15 was a bit noisy. I thought For a while there was mechanical issues but Found out it was it’s nature.

Good article. I bought a 1977 Hunter 30, and it does sail surprisingly well for a older production boat. The engine works okay but is a bit noisy. It will soon be for sail as my daughter is the sailor and moved overseas for college.

Almost 40 years in my 1978 27 ft. Your comments were all on the mark. The original 8 hp gave out after 30 years and repowered with the 15 hp and replace the packing stuffing box with seal. Replaced the ports in the head and vee. For the time available I had to sail it worked out well. Fifteen years on Great Lakes and 22 plus in FL.

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Bet You Didn't Know This About Hunters!

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So why did you use 3M 4200 instead of 3M 5200 for re-bedding the keel?  

On the advice of people far more experienced that I. We considered 5200 but there is ever another problem with the keel, getting it off is as bad, if not worse, than an epoxy bed. 5200 gives the flex but is still a cast-iron bastard to get off if something goes wrong. Since the bolts are there to provide the mechanical attachment to the boat and the bolts on the 340 are 4 1 1/4" and 1 1", they had plenty of strength. 3M 4200 is an adhesive and is still insanely strong. So we accepted it as a compromise to retain a lot of the original bond, allow the keel to flex like it is supposed to and make it actually possible to drop the keel in the event damage is done. And not at the cost of two solid days in the slings and damage to the keel stub in getting it off. 4200 will actually separate. They were recommending a straight bedding compound like they do on race boats. 4200 was the middle ground from a 5200/epoxy bed. Matt  

Is that the super shallow draft version? I hear that is an expensive option! To me it does seem to be strong, but only if there are no air gaps. But of course it is not exactly making for easy maintenance. Seems to me to be a more of a budget cutting measure as I am sure the epoxy that they buy by the tanker full is cheaper than 3M 5200, but is not made for any kind of repairs or maintenance. Kind of like the new "sealed for life" transmissions. Sure fine for the first owner, but not so much so for the second who has to have it rebuilt because they made it so you could not have the fluid changed as part of the scheduled maintenance.  

So, in all this, I'm still wondering what caused the damage in the first place. If it was cracked and leaking toward the aft end of the keel - that sounds like a pretty good grounding.  

We exposed the joint and it appeared to be a hairline crack towards the aft on the port side. Barely visible. There is no evidence of the boat ever having gone aground, we've never been aground since we bought it and the boat has spent its entire life on the Chesapeake Bay. Not impossible to ground and do damage but one of the safest places in the world to do it. I've seen keels with grounding damage. No scrapes, no dents, no chunks removed, nothing on ours. Only evidence of an issue on the keel was the cracking fairing compound and that is a common problem on externally ballasted boats. Inspection found no evidence of any keel damage at all. Our best speculation is given the thinness of the keel profile at the aft is more prone to flex and there isn't a lot of surface area there to bond to. And after putting the keel back on the long keel studs made it hard to get good torque on the nuts. Probably a combination of the long bolts, thin keel and perhaps a light amount of epoxy contributed. We sailed the boat in heavy conditions during a day race and we think that it started the crack to open just enough as the keel flexed in 30 knots of wind and short 4-6 foot chop. The amount of water was negligible. Perhaps a paper towel's worth a day after we splashed following our two weeks on the hard for inspection. I checked the boat twice a day for the six weeks leading up to the repair date. Even the surveyor said it was a long term problem and recommended against repair unless we planned to keep the boat a long time (more than 5 years). Just live with it, sell it and make it someone else's problem. This we obvious did not do. There was no corrosion on the studs and virtually no delamination in the glass in rearmost stud tunnels. So we caught it very early before it had a chance to damage the studs or wreck the rear sump laminate. Crevice corrosion on the bottom of the #4 backing plate but that is not uncommon given the shape of the sump in this area. As I said, speculation at best. Since the repair, the boat is back to being bone dry in the bilge. Matt  

Matt- FWIW "Hunter" went out of business about a year ago. The new owners, who bought the assets, may or may not be building the same way. 5200 requires no mixing but requires a fairly long cure time, days. Eventually it does get quite hard but I suspect it still is more flexible than many epoxies. Epoxy has to be mixed properly and typically cures in hours, or overnight. So besides price, there could be good reasons to use one or the other in the larger manufacturing process.  

hellosailor said: ...FWIW "Hunter" went out of business about a year ago. The new owners, who bought the assets, may or may not be building the same way... Click to expand...

Five, then I've been mislead. A member of one of the ofrums said they went by the Hunter yard and it was padlocked and closed. This was followed by news that they had filed for bankruptcy and subsequently, the new owners bought the assets of the company and were re-opening it again, with no mention that they were also buying the liabilities, specifically, no mention that they would honor existing contracts or warranties. If that's incorrect, then that's incorrect. As you say you've actually spoken to the new owner, it would seem that you've got better information. Have you seen any specific citation that the new company IS honoring past liabilities, including purchase contracts for existing hulls, and warranty expenses? It would seem that they should have been very proud to announce that, if that were the case. I missed the memo?  

hellosailor said: Five, then I've been mislead. A member of one of the ofrums said they went by the Hunter yard and it was padlocked and closed. This was followed by news that they had filed for bankruptcy and subsequently, the new owners bought the assets of the company and were re-opening it again, with no mention that they were also buying the liabilities, specifically, no mention that they would honor existing contracts or warranties. If that's incorrect, then that's incorrect. As you say you've actually spoken to the new owner, it would seem that you've got better information. Have you seen any specific citation that the new company IS honoring past liabilities, including purchase contracts for existing hulls, and warranty expenses? It would seem that they should have been very proud to announce that, if that were the case. I missed the memo? Click to expand...

"perhaps your friend visited them " I never mentioned a friend . or an acquaintance . I said someone on another forum. A friend is someone who will bring you bail money, or any other unlikely request, and ask questions later. An acquaintance is someone you'd be reluctant to call for the same reason as your friend. Some guy online? Could be a dog (old joke) for all you know on the internet. As you say, things change during a bankruptcy sale. The old company and the old ways didn't make a sufficient profit. The new company will make changes to ensure profits. And typically, that means, yes, they will do things differently. If the old company riveted on the wings (like Boeing) or welded on the wings, the new one might glue the wings on. As they are on some modern combat aircraft, even if those are also from Boeing. And with some stuff today, I see glue used in big plants and multiple expensive screws used in smaller plants, where they don't know what glue is. Yet. Slave labor is cheaper than glue. No way to tell unless you call Mr. Marlow and ask, huh?  

"They pretty much told him every single Hunter keel was put on with epoxy. " Heheh. Cheeki Rafiki? Maybe you didn't hear about, what was it, Thursday's Child? A boat custom built for the head of Hunter back around the late 80's, that lost its keel very soon after launching. One might suspect that event inspired someone to use epoxy on the later boats. Ya'think? As to 4300/vs/5200 and peeling off laminates, that sounds like someone doesn't quite have it right. If 4200 and 5200 have "almost the same" bond strength, they will remain bonded to a laminate, or not, in the same way. Given that the strength of laminates will also vary quite a bit, there would have to be a significant difference between the bond strength (4200/5200) and the 4200 would have to be significantly weaker in order to ensure it failed to bond, and released from the laminate. I don't know, I'm not looking those up. Just saying, the (non)numbers don't add up unless there is some significant difference. If you have, say, a six by 36 inch area to bond, that's only 216 square inches, but if the bond strength is 700# per square inch, that's still enough to keep a seventy-five ton keel attached. Assuming the laminate can hold up to that.(G)  

The notion that the keel was held in place by epoxy, and that the keel bolts are essentially superfluous, is very misleading. The epoxy is there to keep the water out, period. Epoxy is very strong stuff, but it is also prone to crack propagation (as you have apparently found out). Therefore, the material tensile strength (e.g., the value given in an earlier post in this thread) may seem pretty impressive, but that is determined using a very small homogeneous specimen under optimal conditions. One little flaw (and there are always flaws under real world conditions) and catastrophic failure is inevitable. Steel, bronze, and iron are much more forgiving, which is one reason they are used in applications with high tensile loads (like keel bolts). I can pretty much guarantee that without bolts your keel would have fallen off a long time ago.  

On a quality-built boat, a hull-keel attachment should be seen as a permanent bond, unlike deck fittings, stanchions, thru-hulls and other fittings that may need to be rebedded, and might be more appropriately sealed with butyl tape or silicone. The two places where 3M 5200 is the ideal adhesive are the hull-keel attachment and the hull-deck attachment. The problem with epoxy in the hull-keel joint is not lack of strength, it is that epoxy cracks. Cracks allow water ingress. Hence, we come to the problem at hand: a leaking keel. Some of you need to pay attention to terminology. There is a difference between "epoxy" and an epoxy putty or mix. Mixing epoxy with another substance lessens its tensile strength and may give it different material properties. "Such improvements are usually achieved at the sacrifice of tensile, flexural, and impact strength (when granular fillers are used). Most fillers reduce the coefficient of thermal expansion and shrinkage in proportion to the amount of filler rather than the type of filler used." from "Dow Liquid Epoxy Resins". http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedLiteratureDOWCOM/dh_0030/0901b8038003041c.pdf?filepath=/296-00224.pdf&fromPage=GetDoc I want the strongest, most flexible adhesive on my hull-keel joint. That is not pure epoxy by any stretch of the imagination. There is an Latin expression used in law: "res ipsa loquitur": "the thing speaks for itself". When you keel leaks and/or falls off, without any apparent, abnormal, impact - that speaks for itself. You can argue against reality all you want without changing it.  

jameswilson29 said: On a quality-built boat, a hull-keel attachment should be seen as a permanent bond, unlike deck fittings, stanchions, thru-hulls and other fittings that may need to be rebedded, and might be more appropriately sealed with butyl tape or silicone. The two places where 3M 5200 is the ideal adhesive are the hull-keel attachment and the hull-deck attachment. Click to expand...

jameswilson29 said: The problem with epoxy in the hull-keel joint is not lack of strength, it is that epoxy cracks. Cracks allow water ingress. Hence, we come to the problem at hand: a leaking keel. Click to expand...

jameswilson29 said: Some of you need to pay attention to terminology. There is a difference between "epoxy" and an epoxy putty or mix. Mixing epoxy with another substance lessens its tensile strength and may give it different material properties. Click to expand...

jameswilson29 said: I want the strongest, most flexible adhesive on my hull-keel joint. That is not pure epoxy by any stretch of the imagination. Click to expand...

jameswilson29 said: There is an Latin expression used in law: "res ipsa loquitur": "the thing speaks for itself". When you keel leaks and/or falls off, without any apparent, abnormal, impact - that speaks for itself. You can argue against reality all you want without changing it. Click to expand...

jameswilson29 said: I want the strongest, most flexible adhesive on my hull-keel joint. Click to expand...

Read the initial post. The OP refers repeatedly to Hunter's use of "epoxy", not epoxy putty or an epoxy mixture. My 37 year old Pearson keel does not leak and the bolts look great considering their age; my bilge is usually dry. I don't know what Pearson used in 1977 and I don't know when 3M 5200 came into widespread use. Pearson did do a good job with the basics. Just because many manufacturers do the same thing, does not make it right. Sometimes they use something or do something because it is easiest and/or most economical, or because everyone else is doing it that way. There have been many class-action lawsuits against the participants in particular industries who were all doing something wrong. It might, however, provide a legal defense to someone who follows the herd and uses the same methods and materials. No one is infallible. Every one should do his or her own research. No one should assume someone is always correct because he or she is an "expert" or a "professional". I know you do not like 3M 5200. I know you sell butyl tape and are an advocate for its use. I use butyl tape for the appropriate application. I also use silicone, polyester resin, epoxy resin, thickened epoxy putty, and 5200 for the appropriate application. Each has its strengths and weaknesses. I applaud the OP for paying attention to his hull-keel joint. As someone who just repaired his rudder, I share his concern for the basics. Too many boaters are concerned about the latest and greatest gadgets and ignore the basics. Any one who follows the boating news knows that boats are having rudder and keel problems that did not exist, or were not reported, 40 years ago. There is a serious builder and/or industry problem to be addressed when keels start leaking and/or falling off relatively-new boats during normal usage.  

jameswilson29 said: Read the initial post. The OP refers repeatedly to Hunter's use of "epoxy", not epoxy putty or an epoxy mixture. Click to expand...

jameswilson29 said: My 37 year old Pearson keel does not leak and the bolts look great considering their age; my bilge is usually dry. I don't know what Pearson used in 1977 and I don't know when 3M 5200 came into widespread use. Pearson did do a good job with the basics. Click to expand...

jameswilson29 said: Just because many manufacturers do the same thing, does not make it right. Sometimes they use something or do something because it is easiest and/or most economical, or because everyone else is doing it that way. There have been many class-action lawsuits against the participants in particular industries who were all doing something wrong. It might, however, provide a legal defense to someone who follows the herd and uses the same methods and materials. Click to expand...

jameswilson29 said: No one is infallible. Every one should do his or her own research. No one should assume someone is always correct because he or she is an "expert" or a "professional". Click to expand...

jameswilson29 said: I know you do not like 3M 5200. I know you sell butyl tape and are an advocate for its use. I use butyl tape for the appropriate application. I also use silicone, polyester resin, epoxy resin, thickened epoxy putty, and 5200 for the appropriate application. Each has its strengths and weaknesses. Click to expand...

jameswilson29 said: There is a serious builder and/or industry problem to be addressed when keels start leaking and/or falling off relatively-new boats during normal usage. Click to expand...

Threads like this always make me appreciate the encapsulated keel on my old Cal. Not that encapsulated keels are completely problem free (e.g., the hull/keel lamination can flex if not built thick enough)...but the issues in this thread are pretty much irrelevant to a boat like mine.  

MaineSail for the win. As usual.  

Not really in it for a win just to let folks now that there is more than one way to set a keel, none of them being wrong, just different approaches... Some very, very experienced builders choose epoxy set keels.....  

I love how that trawler mast looks on your boat E! There's been allot of dooms dayers here lately. Sigh.  

Wow, I did not know there were winners and losers in discussions! So, who "won" the SDR thread with the professional delivery boat captain against some douchebag?  

Heh-heh. The douchebag! Obviously! As you well know, counselor, winners and losers are always decided by the preponderance of evidence (see above). I'm just sayin'.  

Oh boy, you asked for it Maine. It's the new FightClub: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/vessels-lost-missing-danger/105421-rallies-gone-wrong.html  

Maine, presumably that green fallen keel was lead. Anyone who has worked with lead for a while would know that lead forms a thin layer of oxide, exactly the same way that aluminum forms a molecular skin and raw iron develops a rust blemish. And that lead oxide layer will prevent any type of adhesive bond to the lead itself. So all it takes is casting the keel on Monday and not cleaning it off when bonding it on Tuesday, and the bond will only be to the oxide layer. And it will fail relatively easily. Which is not to blame everything on the worker or the metal. I've used 5200 on properly cleaned stainless and seen it peel off like silly putty after it cured. No idea why--but it has me convinced that I can't trust 5200 on stainless. On wood or FRP, I trust it just fine. The greatest advantage to keel bolts, is that you can LOOK at them and get some idea about whether they are doing their job. At least most of the time. Looking at a glued joint, you can't tell a damned thing about how well it is working. So you have to trust the builder, who of course always has used the finest skilled labor and has the highest quality product in mind.  

Aloha, we are planning on taking out our Hunter Passage 45 and re-bedding the keel. We have one bolt that is leaking and the last time they took her out and painted her, they just tightened the bolts, after seeing about a cm of gap all around. They placed the boats full weight on the keel and tightened the bolts. Does that sound right? Now 4 years later she is leaking a bit again. Could you please place the pictures of your keel being re-bedded. Thank you  

so you can get it apart if you need to unlike true love 5200 is for ever  

on fiberglass  

Matt Not sure you are still monitoring this forum. I just saw your post today (May 5, 2016) and was curious to learn more and to see photos. Ours is a 2006 H36 with keel issue. First noticed a crack at the hull to keel sump joint on the leading edge and also on the sump to keel flange. This was repaired by sanding down to show no crack and to then epoxy and glass air. Can't recall how we did the keel to sump crack, but definitely did not drop the keel. After repairing from the outside, saw a hairline crack in the bottom of the inside of the sump at the leading edge. Proceeded to gouge out the gelcoat to repair to find water come out. Would like to chat with you on my dime if it is ok with you. regards, Peter  

mpickering said: Trouble-free when it works and beyond incredibly strong. The keel bolts are an afterthought. You don't need them. I have 5 keel bolts, 4 of them 1 1/4" monsters and in an epoxy joint, they are superfluous. Click to expand...

Does this need any special repair unlike the ones mentioned in this thread? Hunter 33 broke loose and grounded. Boat yard sales it needs its inner liner repaired?  

Attachments

Best bet for you would be to start a new thread, as this one is 4+ years old. Based on what I see in your thumbnails, yes it does need to have the keel dropped, the stub and liner and any stringers fixed, and then have the keel properly reattached.  

always good to see a main sail, smacky, and wilson thread dredge though. Ah the good ole days.  

mpickering said: My wife and I are the happy owners of a 2000 Hunter 340. Boat surveyed almost flawlessly a year ago. Had a good season, saw a little rough weather on the Chesapeake and spent the winter in the water. Come the spring, we noticed water kept appearing in the bilge. We'd dry it out, it would come back. Over a couple months, we progressively eliminated sources until we finally began to realize the water was coming from the #4 and #5 aft most keel bolts. Out of an abundance of caution, we hauled the boat, brought the surveyor out and revealed that we likely had a crack in the keel bedding that was letting water in via the keel joint. Recommended repairs was to expose the joint and fill it. Most yards stated the only sure way to repair such an issue was to drop and rebed the keel. After much hand-wringing, the need for safety won out. We contracted for a yard in Annapolis to do the work and got the boat in the keel stand. They pulled the keel nuts and backing plates and we saw water in the tunnels. That cinched it. Hunter owners out there, do you ever wonder why you rarely hear about issues with Hunter keels? Here's the reason: View attachment 35265 That's air. Air from the gap from the saw required to cut away the keel joint to drop the keel. Air across 90% of the joint save for the first 3 keel bolt holes. That is all that is holding 4600+ pounds of lead in the air still attached to the boat. All courtesy of Hunter's preferred bedding compound for keels: Epoxy . I learned a lot that day. The main thing being that Hunters don't have keel issues because the bond is so strong it takes a very hard grounding to damage them. Even the factory was surprised to hear a 340 was getting the keel done. For some reason, lots of builders are putting keels on with epoxy nowadays. It makes sense from a maintenance standpoint. Trouble-free when it works and beyond incredibly strong. The keel bolts are an afterthought. You don't need them. I have 5 keel bolts, 4 of them 1 1/4" monsters and in an epoxy joint, they are superfluous. All five nuts were off and the keel was hanging on the boat from three plugs of epoxy that had formed around the forward 3 keel bolt studs. But epoxy creates stiffness along a joint of dissimilar materials that can and does flex. Hence why you're supposed to bed with something flexible to allow for that motion. As long as it holds up it will be fine. But, as my experience shows, once a little fatigue happens or the joint flexes beyond the tensile strength of the epoxy, it doesn't bend; it cracks. That's what we think happened in our boat. That probably combined with a day at the factory where not enough epoxy was put on the day my keel was bedded on. And when you need to fix it, here's where you wind up: View attachment 35273 Enjoy that view (or cringe in horror) and see what happens when epoxy as a joint compound fails you. The end result, though, was a keel rebed that was better than new. The keel stub was repaired to perfection, the keel was rebedded with 3M 4200 and allowed the keel bolts to be actual bolts to hold the keel on and faired so beautifully you can't find the joint even if you knew where to look. Hunter has apparently been doing this forever. And with few problems to their credit. Until you have one like mine. And so are a lot of other makers which leads me to wonder where they will be once sailing stresses take their toll on what is a butt joint to the bottom of their hulls rather than against a dedicated sump like on my boat. But feel free to share this little tidbit with friends and fellow surveyors. Even our surveyor never knew this about Hunters. I have plenty of pictures of this experience if anyone is curious about the process of dropping an epoxy bedded keel and putting it back on. The end result for us is peace of mind. Matt Click to expand...

15Knots said: Hi Matt, I am faced with what seems to be a similar problem on a 1985 Hunter 28. We are hauling it out in May 2023, so we'll be able to see what's really going on. For right now, it seems to be keel bolt leaks. But I'm not convinced. Anyway, I would love to see more photos and, hopefully, be able to pick your brain on this. Can you reach out to me at [email protected] ? Click to expand...

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